I want to share with you some results and tell me if you think these would be considered professional grade, or highly impressive to say the least;

110% gain for 2011
124 Trades, 74 winners, 50 Losses
59.67% Accuracy Rate
Largest Win: $14,360
Largest Loss: $8,180
Max Win = 43% larger than Max Loss
Max Consec. Wins: 16
Max Consec. Losses: 6
Max Consec. Win Streak 2.66x Larger Than Max. Consec. Loss Streak
Largest Trading Position: 1M

Overall, this could make the grade for a professional trader.  In fact, I know many that did worse (a lot worse) then him and would be happy with his results.

The 4hr Charts

There has been a lot of talk and garbage being spoken about trading off the 4hr charts, how its trading as a hobby, how you'll only be an amateur, how if you want to be a professional trader, you need to trade off the 1m, 5min, 15m, smaller time frames.  Ridiculous, but we are going to demonstrate why.

I have been wanting to show people the power of trading the 4hr time frames for a while. Although I have many students doing it, nobody is solely trading off the 4hr. They usually add the daily, or 1hr and have a mix of time frames and systems.  In comes Tony.

Do you remember Tony?  I wrote about him in the Pyramid of Trading article whereby I talked about him back in early Oct. At that time he was up 76%, and ended the year up 110%. Meaning, he gained another 34% in the last three months - impressive to say the least.

Tony had one thing going for him which was the best edge one could have - discipline.  Tony had very little experience, no business/finance degree, just a desire to learn, patience and discipline.  He came to me in late 2009 wanting to take some private mentoring sessions.

I taught him less than a handful of systems which he learned well and practiced on in 2010.  By the end of the year, he settled on his two favorites:
Price Action
&
The Shadow System.

He learned his risk parameters, his style, how he wanted to trade, what was the best pair for him, then went for it.  He settled on trading the AUDUSD only on the 4hr time frames using those two (Price Action & the Shadow System).

I am going to show you his entire trading report, which averages about 10-12 trades a month with the max being 16 and the least being about 8.  You already have the stats above so lets show you the entire trade history for 2011.  I have covered his personal details and acct number to protect his privacy, but all the trading is there which you can see below.

Screenshot 1


Screenshot 2


Screenshot 3


Screenshot 4


Screenshot 5


Screenshot 6


So there you have it, an entire year of trading.  To recap his performance;
110% gain for 2011
124 Trades, 74 winners, 50 Losses
59.67% Accuracy Rate
Largest Win: $14,360
Largest Loss: $8,180
Max Win = 43% larger than Max Loss
Max Consec. Wins: 16
Max Consec. Losses: 6
Largest Trading Position: 1M 

This should finally put to rest the ridiculous talk and idea you only have to trade one time frame or smaller time frames to be a professional or highly successful trader.  Keep in mind this is coming from a person
who admits they are an amateur and still learning.

So let me get this straight, you...an amateur, with your limited experience, thinks that your perception, intelligence and understanding, not just of trading the markets, but of the learning process, knows there is only one way to learn how to trade successfully and professionally?  A market with over 3million participants, traders from virtually every continent, with 25% of all retail traders being profitable, that your idea, captures the entire truth about trading and the learning process, that it has an entire monopoly on trading and the learning process.  You...all by yourself?

Really?  You really believe that?  Really???

Does anyone see the flaws (yes, plural) in this thinking?  

I have been wanting to demonstrate the power of trading the higher time frames (1hr, 4hr and daily) and I would have been happy to post mine for the last year, but my trading is across 12 systems, some completely automated across the 5m, 30m, 1hr, 4hr and daily time frames. With over 1500 trades last year alone, how could I parse out just the 4hr time frames and produce those only?

Then in came Tony just a few days ago to share with me his results.  He traded only on the 4hr time frame for an entire year.  A lot of his trades were done in a day, but many went a few days, with several going 4-6 days holding time.  All he traded was Price Action and my Shadow System on one pair for an entire year.  Disciplined, patient, and highly profitable.  

How many educators show results from their students, especially of this caliber?  I believe I am one of the few, and Tony will not be the last. Maybe the next person is you - hopefully it is.

To also separate myself and end the debate, at the end of this year, I'll show you audited results from an account I opened up just to demonstrate I am not just a good teacher, but a good trader as well.  I will publish the audited results from a professional accounting firm, on my site so you can all see I am the real deal.  I have no idea how i'll end up for the year, but whatever it is, you will see it.  Even though my fund has an 8+yr audited track record (which should be proof enough), this will settle it, as it will only be my trading, only me pushing buttons, not anyone from my trading team, or any account from my fund.  Just my own individual account opened just for this.  This should end the debate.  Hopefully then I can focus on trading, and teaching people who are serious about learning to trade successfully.

With that being said, don't let one close-minded person with their limited experience (of trading, and educating traders) give you some garbage about the only path to trading profitably, successfully and professionally.  

There are 3 things I live and breathe every day and have been for over the last 10yrs;
Yoga
Meditation
Forex

I make my living and have been for almost a decade from trading.  I study it everyday and every moment I can get a chance.  The only thing that is right up there with the three things I listed above is Teaching People to Become Successful Traders.  I've seen every kind of trader you can imagine (from time frame to profitability), and there is no one person who holds the monopoly on the truth of trading and the learning process.

Dear Spiro - with all of your trash talking & bashing of me, and your limited ideas about trading/learning, I still wish you the best of luck in your trading ventures.  I doubt you'll admit you were wrong, or end the argument, or shut up, or stop talking about how you know the way, and how everyone else is wrong and your right.  Such is the path of the fixed and crystallized ego...

But, regardless of all that, I sincerely hope you become a highly successful and profitable trader. I hope you do it in whatever way you see best, and that you have a long career of it.  I also hope you find some measure of peace in your life and that all good things for you increase. 

And to the rest of you with open minds and a serious desire to learn, this demonstrates you can be a profitable and highly successful trader, regardless of your time frame, system or background.  With the right effort, discipline, and patience, you can be a profitable and successful trader as well.

Ode to the 4hr Charts and profitable trading.

Kind Regards,
Chris Capre
2ndSkiesForex.com
Twitter; 2ndSkiesForex 







 

Views: 1502

Tags: 4hr, action, advanced, capre, charts, chris, course, courses, education, forex, More…mentoring, pinbars, price, private, profitably, read, reading, reviews, shadow, signals, strategies, successfully, system, systems, the, trading, training, triggers

Comment by 2ndSkiesForex on February 15, 2012 at 7:54pm

The important thing is that you found and are trading what you love.  And since that is the shorter term time frames for you, I support you 100% and wish you all the success.

The funny thing is I have taught the same thing to Tony as I did others.  I could teach 1000 people the same exact system, let them loose, and will get many different results since each person is different and will manage them based on their psychological tendencies.  

But by being disciplined, Tony went beyond his preferences, what he thought was right, and found something that was workable to his way of thinking.  It just happened to be the 4hr time frame, even though I also taught him the 1hr and 2hr version of the same system.  

Point being - find your own style and rhythm.  Learn the method, the discipline, patience, be diligent, then find your style and own it.  From that point, anyone can repeat what Tony did, whether it be the 4hr, daily, or 1min.

Thanks for sharing and all the best.
Chris 

Comment by 2ndSkiesForex on February 15, 2012 at 8:36pm

@Arjun,

Yes, Tony is one of many who are proof one can trade only from the 4hr time frame and be highly profitable and successful.  Again, this is not the only way, but works for many people.  Find what works for you, then go for it, whether it be the 1m, 4h or daily time frames.

Remember, he spent a year honing his craft in 2010, then just traded the price action + shadow system for 2011 - only on the 4hr time frame.  So Tony demonstrated amazing patience, fantastic diligence and incredible discipline.  If you can develop those same characteristics (anyone can), then there is no reason why you cannot be successful like Tony.

I hope you to also have a similar story to tell, regardless of the time frame.

All the best.
Chris 

Comment by talisman on February 16, 2012 at 1:25am

good article.  i like the comment " what he thought was right ". we all come into this with some sense of what we think will ( should ) happen.  it is important to recognize what actually happens and let go of any bias' we have and deal with what is and not what we think it should be.

i bet tony had a lot of free time trading this way as well!

Comment by 2ndSkiesForex on February 16, 2012 at 1:40am

That he did Talisman, plenty of free time to enjoy life and be living it.  Tis something to consider.

But good point as well, to let go of any bias, and deal with what is.

Chris Capre 

Comment by yrochendi on February 16, 2012 at 7:28am

for everything, i like this

Comment by 2ndSkiesForex on February 16, 2012 at 11:56am

Hello YroChendi,

Thanks for the kind words and am glad you found the article informative.

Kind Regards,
Chris 

Comment by Tahir Khan on February 19, 2012 at 10:10am

Most of my work, over 90% is done via a 4 hrs chart. The precision on an entry / exit is simply awesome on the 4 hrs chart. Since, I'm purely a chartist when it comes to using tools on the charts, I heavily rely on 4 hrs. Most of my charts on this forum always shows a 4 hr chart and though i use 2 hr / 8 hr and even 30 mins but they are more or less to confirm the projections  shown on the 4 hrs..

Whats even more encouraging to use 4 hrs chart is that almost 90% or slightly higher the day lows and highs are off the 4 hrs charts.......

Just to show the effectiveness, the below chart been posted numerous time and it was not simply to do a day trade but helped me shorting 3318 and recovering into 2980;s and now been long off 2976.............

since the 4 hrs split each time zone (AUS / ASIA / EU / NA) into 2 halves u can use it to your benefit to illustrate the mind set of traders and pair strength and weakness for that particular session......

IF I HAVE TO PICK A SINGLE TIME FRAME TO TRADE SOLELY UPON IT WILL BE NONE OTHER THAN A 4 HR CHART..................

GL...

Comment by 2ndSkiesForex on February 19, 2012 at 10:35am

@Tahir - thanks for sharing...I am about to start my morning meditation but will respond in full to your post and comments in a short time.

But yes, the 4hr can be powerful to trade off of.  Any chart or time frame can and I have said this time and time over again (although my friend seems to miss this point), that I am not promoting only one time frame and never have.  And the whole point of this article was to dismantle the idea you can only be professional, have highly successful or professional results if you trade off the lower time frames and I think this article with Tony's trading completely dismantles that idea.

But again, off to meditation and will comment on it later as im really interested to hear how you got into this trade.

Kind Regards,
Chris 

Comment by Tahir Khan on February 19, 2012 at 10:47am

I haven't read Tony's comment but 4 hrs stays as a powerful tool indeed, but adding a little spice of shorter time frames esp 30 for me and at rare occasion 5 mins ( if I'm out with fork and a knife - ummm... I means with scalp gears).. 4 hrs for entry / exits and 30 mins for me to add to a position on a breakout within the main 4 hrs channels or price action or seeing a supp/resis on 30 mins to take some early gains off the table and so on..

I rest my case with stating that 90% or more you get ur day lows and highs based on a 4 hrs chart and more likely than not 1 out of 5 times your entry just could be a buy on day low or sell at day high....... This concept alone increases ur winning take to huge proportional..

I have at times done over 30% a month simply I was able to hold on to a decent entry for few days and adding trades to that particular direction. and I don't over leverage at all.. Well very seldom...................

GL..

Comment by 2ndSkiesForex on February 19, 2012 at 12:00pm

Hello Tahir,

Very interesting strategy to say the least.  Yes, one of the great things about the 4hr charts is it splits the sessions into halves which not only gives you a lot of sentiment (half of the european price action, or half of the NY price action, or half of the asian price action).  for a formation to happen on a candle of a 1min time frame can mean very little, but on a 4hr time frame means all the orders placed for half of a trading session formed that candle.  

This is a large collection of orders, price action and sentiment which can be used in unique ways.

one of the ways you mentioned, capturing the highs and lows of the days off the 4hr charts is a very good technique, along with adding positions on the 30m time frame within the 4hr structure.

very clever indeed.

I will have more to say about this later but you bring up some very good points.

again, for the 1000th time, i am not saying any one time frame is the holy grail - I have never said that, and have always endorsed multiple time frames.   I can make a profitable trader on any time frame, meaning the time frame is irrelevant - its what you can get out of that and how you can trade that successfully that matters


the whole pt of this article was to dismantle or debunk the silly idea the only way to achieve professional caliber results is via the lower time frames and Tony's trading and track record completely destroys this idea.  

In fact, id be interested to hear how long Spiro has been training and going through the learning process.  Tony needed less than 1.25 yrs of practice, then trading live in 2011 did 110% return with impressive stats across the board.

i'd be willing to be Spiro will not get 110% gains after 1.25 yrs of study/practice, and 1yr of live trading.  So what does this mean?  Does it mean the methods I teach are better? Does it mean they accelerate the learning curve?  What if it takes Spiro 3yrs to get there, yet Tony by that time will have had 2yrs of profitable trading doing over 100% each year?  What would that mean?

My guess is it would mean the learning curve can be accelerated, but again - I am not endorsing one time frame as the holy grail.  I endorse many and always have been, but the argument the lower time frames are the only way to do highly profitable results has definitely been debunked and proven otherwise to be not true.


Kind Regards,
Chris 

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