Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Edgar Forex on August 6, 2012 at 11:35am

Here are my results from one Live Account. Not so bad :)

And this is from another account :)

Permalink Reply by Peter jcp on August 6, 2012 at 11:54am

Firstly - thank you for sharing your results Edgar Forex.

All excellent results and you look as though you are having a very good August so far.

Do you have different live accounts for different pairs or strategies? 

I don't know what type of trades you take - but I would think you are experienced and seem to have good consistency - and are not having any losing months.

Keep it up and I hope you have a brilliant August 

Regards 

Peter

Permalink Reply by Edgar Forex on August 6, 2012 at 12:23pm

Thank you Peter!

I'm trading on several pairs at the moment.

I'm currently using my own developed system on live and demo accounts since June 2012. And I'm also trading manually using my trading from technical analysis and some fundamental as well.

Those results that i posted show the records on the system working on multiple pairs, but i'm also testing the system on separate pairs like EurUsd and Gold (with not such good results). I'm also testing new variations of my system on other trading accounts.

I'm still new to the forums and I don't know if we can post external links or not. But if we can't please advise me. Here's the trading performance on myfxbook for some accounts that i'm monitoring.

Myfxbook Link

Please note that my PAMM account shows -477 Pips in June while i was testing the system with very low risk on a live account. But after that the results are very good.

Permalink Reply by Pipomatic on August 7, 2012 at 12:34am

OK. Here's mine. Most of the time I open a trade with the lot size 100 pips = 10%. I have a SL between 15 and 20 pips. Sometimes I close the trade earlier. I try to catch 5m 15m swings from 20 to 60 pips. Still learning and practicing (on real accounts).

Here's my stats:

PS: Hi Peter, miss you on the chatroom ..

Regards

Permalink Reply by Edgar Forex on August 7, 2012 at 9:18am

Nice results Pipomatic.

I'm going to update my trading results because I had a great last night in trading :) i think i will start trading more in August from now on :) ehee

so here's the screenshot

I have not placed this account yet on myfxbook to track it because this is a FXCM account that uses Trade Station but i had similar performance on other accounts. You can check them on the link

Myfxbook Link

Permalink Reply by Peter jcp on August 7, 2012 at 9:26am

Well done Edgar and Pipomatic . I follow your 10% for 100 pips with your stops based approx on 20 pips being approx 2% of you capital - which is fairly safe  in MM terms

I am live scalping every day Pipo in the ForeXmosgate group along with some other guys who also swing trade. So far since we started approx 4 weeks ago we are already up over 2500 pips ( for me) on scalps with yesterday ( Monday) clocking up 172 on 17 trades with 3 wrong.

If you want to join get an invite and you will be accepted - and similar with you Edgar Forex if you are interested.

We mainly cover the EU but are also posting trades up dates on other main pairs as well.

I wish you both an excellent August and keep it up 

Regards 

Peter

Permalink Reply by Pipomatic on August 7, 2012 at 9:38am

Tnx Peter for the supporting words and the invitation. I will most probably accept it but until September I don't have much time.

Permalink Reply by Peter jcp on August 11, 2012 at 5:10pm

Hi Anil - Yes you are correct to say just counting the pips is not the "definitive" way to measure your success in trading. The actual cash you make is the most important and how it is related to the size of your trading account.

However they are linked and I will show you why during the next few paragraphs. I have already mentioned in the opening article that I would be quite happy with only 100 pips a month if I was on 100 full lots a pip - as that's a lot of money. Similarly if another trader as made 2000 pips in a month and their all on micro lots - the end result might not even be equivalent to the other guys lot size in cash and so even if he had only made 1 pip - he would have made more money.

Furthermore you can have a positive pips value - say 300 pips in a month - and still have lost money - simply due to you losses being on a larger stakes sizes.

The link though is the correlation -ie - more is better - forgetting lot size and capital size we would all prefer systems that generated say an average 1000 pips a month ( consistently) within say 10-20% either way - than a system that only made 300 pips a month ( consistently)

Then whether you are using say 2% of your account on 20 pips - 1000 pips make you equivalent to 100% ( 50x20pips) or if you only used half a percent on 20 pips - 1000 pips makes you  25% return.

Compare this to the system only making 300 pips a month - on 2% per 20 pips - 30% ( compared to 100% ) and on half a percent per 20 pips - 7 and half % ( compared to 25%)

So number of pips do count - its just then what percentage stake and actual cash you place on the trade. Yet again this will not be the same - ie 10% of a $1k account is only the same as 1% stake of a $10k account.

You also have to bring your stop size into the equation as well as your ROR etc  - ie 

If i made 250 pips in a busy day and everybody said great - just off one great trade- but my stop size was 125 pips - then the RR ratio is only 2. So a trader using 2% stake of his $10k capital account on that 250 pips trade - is only making the same actual cash result as another trader with a 20 pip result and a 10 pip stop ( RR of 2 again) . With  a small stop size you can use a larger stake size keeping to your MM.

Conclusion - without asking every trader for their actual cash return etc - both the pip count and the ROR  are both relevant ways - but the pip count will help you gauge you the success of the system - as demonstrated by what I mentioned - ie all traders would prefer a consistent 1000 pips a month result then a consistent 300 pips a month..

I have not mentioned other ratios and draw downs etc which do come also into the equation - because ideally you dont want you system to have big draw downs and low win ratios - ie make 1000 pips a month but half way through the month you are down 500 pips.If you can make 1000 pips a month and never be exposed to say over 100 pips maximum draw down that's good

With me being mainly a short term multi trader - average stop sizes are 4-8 pips and maximuim exposure a day is normally never over 30 pips at an extreme - ie I would need 6+ bad trades in a row. I don't risk 2% of my capital on  say a 5 pip stop though - but if I did i would end up many days with 25-50% gains - even with relatively small risk - but my lot size would be too large for comfort ( over 20 lots)

I know some short term traders who use large leverage and with a small say $250 account use 30%+ of their capital on stakes and then compound. They are always only 2-4 bad trades away from blowing their accounts - but they can then with luck churn out 500% increase in a week.

Yes I played with it and if you blow you account after say 10 trades it hardly a massive hit - but if after say 10 or 20 trades you are still going with say just 2 losses - you will have quadrupled or even more your account. Then "rinse and repeat" ;-)

So if you see any results were guys have made say 400 pips in a month - but have achieved 1000% ROR - you now know what they are doing 

Have a great August 

Regards 

Peter

Permalink Reply by Peter jcp on August 11, 2012 at 6:07pm

Hi Anil - Did you read what I wrote - and thought about what I have said ?

Whats the good of putting you account up 1000% in a month - if it can only be done on small money?

Bank professionals are happy on ROI ratios  of 25-50%pa even - simple because they are handling Capital accounts of multi millions. However if you gave a £20 million account to a short term scalper who was use to making say 100% a  week or more - he will not achieve the same on a multi million account as a $500 account - FACT.

I think you must live in another world Anil then - I only trade to make money - money to me is far more important and a great ROR or ROI.

So ROR ratios are no more important to counting pips along with other related ratios. - and you cannot prove anything differently

Which would you prefer 50% return a month on a $2000 account or 10% return a month on a million dollar account. If you say the 50% a month because you will then in 3 or 5 yrs catch up with the multi million dollar account - you are believing myths.

Its a shame there are so many myths in this business,

Another question - would you not prefer to make regularly 1000 pips a month than say 200 pips a month ???

Please read again what I have said and digest.

This is a case that pure theory does not relate to reality just like the thousands to one chance you have of taking a 1000 dollar account to 10 million by compounding over many years.

Thousands and thousands of traders have tried it - but is there even a handful who make it.

Anil - I dont know who's advising you or what you have read - but I am stating facts - please prove me wrong 

Regards 

Peter

Permalink Reply by Peter jcp on August 11, 2012 at 6:35pm

I have just noticed on your reply - the additional comment about 20000 pips in a year is great but what do you put your account up by ie 10%  40% etce.

I think I have explained that in my answer - but if say a group of traders with all different size account from say $2k to say $100k  all uses 2% of their capital on each trade and made identical trades in a month with identical results and stop sizes - all their ROR would be the same. However the guys with the larger accounts will have made a lot more money - even thought their percentage results are the same 

Conclusion - The size of  your capital account can give you a better result with the same ROR. Similar their number of pips will all be the same - but would you not you want to be the trader with the larger account - even if your ROR is not even so good ??

Neither ROR or pip counts really stand alone as the best performance counter  - so many other factors come into the equation as we have mentioned.

Hope I am explaining myself clearly ?

Regards 

Peter

Permalink Reply by Keith Shaw on August 11, 2012 at 7:27pm

@Anil, you do have a point, that is why you won the Forex Globe Award, as BesT tRadeR. As a matter of interest were you trading a live or demo account when you won your BesT tRadeR award ?

Permalink Reply by Peter jcp on August 11, 2012 at 9:15pm

Exactly Anil - Oil pips and some other pairs can just give you false readings - EXACTLY THE SAME WITH ROR 

If you have been bothered to read what I have been saying - rather than just arguing for the sake of arguing  I would have made approximately 56% return on my capital in one day - if I had been using 2% of my capital as stake on each trade.

However I only made 9% in the day - simply because i was on stakes under half a percent of my account. 

So false readings from a ROR 

But as you say quote- "success is a measure in the same value" - so share your pip totals with us - and your ROR's and I will do the same - and then you will notice the correlations.

Its taken me a long time to get you to understand what i am saying - but I still have not had the answer to the second question - yet  - and I know why you don't want to answer it

Anil- you might be a great trader etc - but you have still got a lot to learn ;-)

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